Sunday, December 17, 2006
Elfen slurfest...Defaming Vanunu and Atzmon, take a look and see
Gilad Atzmon
A debate between Deborah Maccoby, a ‘Professional Goy Critic’ and Gilad Atzmon, a ‘Dangerous Self Hating, Hebrew Speaking Palestinian’
It didn’t take long before Tribal Jewish activist Mark Elf, the man behind Jews Sans Frontieres joined forces with someone who critiques Goys habitually, Deborah Maccoby, in a total dismissal of the entire Christian religious narrative. Seemingly, some ethnic Jewish campaigners indeed lack Frontiers, they even lack a minimal tolerance towards other people’s beliefs.
While a tolerant atheist would respect the fact that billions of people for almost two millenniums have held the belief that Christ is the ‘Son of God’, the tribal Jewish left activist Maccoby knows better. For her “Jesus was a human being and NOT the Son of God”. She, the Jewish ethnic campaigner knows better than generations of Christians. But she doesn’t stop there. According to Maccoby, Christian belief is a ‘reactionary’ adventure and to support the democratically elected Hamas is ‘regressive’.
One should expect more from a ‘progressive’ tolerant, universal humanist supporter of Palestine. Apparently solidarity with Palestine for the Jewish tribal activist is a bizarre amalgam of self-maintenance mixed with some hardcore Jewish supremacy. I honestly fail to understand how people who claim to be ‘tolerant’, ‘anti racist’ and ‘supportive of the Palestinian people’ manage to dismiss the entirety of Christian belief as well as the democratic choice of the Palestinian people. Deborah Maccoby’s and Mark Elf’s zeal are no doubt a crucial glimpse into the subject of current Jewish left political collectivism.
I do believe that the dismissal of Christianity by Elf, Maccoby and others must be exposed so that the Palestinian solidarity movement can move on and confront both Israeli racism as well as its crypto Zionist moral shield.
A few days ago, Elf and Maccoby published some isolated extracts of a private correspondence between Maccoby and myself (without my permission of course). This time they tried to prove that I am a ‘reactionary Christian anti-Semite’. It didn’t really take me by surprise. It was Maccoby who some time ago accused Mordechai Vanunu of being a ‘reactionary Christian anti-Semite’.[1] Somehow, I happen to be in a good company. At least with one nuclear whistle blower on my side I don’t feel that lonely.
Apparently, I am now accused of being a reactionary Christian anti-Semite. This is not a joke and with Tribal campaigners around, life never gets boring. Maccoby, Elf and their ilk must believe this is so. One may ask, why exactly am I accused of being a ‘reactionary Christian anti-Semite’? It’s simple, because I refuse to accept the authority of a Jewish tribal activist who clearly dismisses the entire Christian religious narrative. I refuse to allow Maccoby and those like her to kill the Son of God twice. I expect them to respect other people’s religion. This is indeed unacceptable especially within the racially orientated Judeo cyberspace.
I have been learning recently that extremist settlers in the West Bank are now occasionally chanting a new song to the Palestinians whom they insist upon oppressing: “We Killed Jesus, We’ll Kill You Too”. I do not know who the ‘we’ they refer to is, but I have a feeling that the need to kill Jesus’s heritage didn’t bypass Deborah Maccoby or her supporter Mark Elf.
I may as well say it, a tolerant being may not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, but he would accept and RESPECT the belief of others. Respect for another’s belief is exactly what Maccoby and Elf lack.
Once again, Maccoby and Elf quoted me out of context. They left me with no choice but to publish the entire correspondence.
In order to maintain the flow of the text, I did some editorial changes and cut out some parts that were not relevant to the argument. The context remained untouched.
The debate:
Professional Goy Critic Maccoby: Anti-Semitism is irrational.
Hebrew speaking Palestinian Atzmon: This is something you really have to prove beyond doubt, and let me tell you it isn't easy! You will have to define the notions of anti-Semitism as well as rationality. As you know, I argue that anti-Semitism is a myth. Moreover I assume that what you really refer to is Anti Jewish feelings rather than anti-Semitism. Surely you know that many of the so-called 'anti-Semites' love Arabs. It is Jewishness that they despise. Integrity is really crucial in case we want to get somewhere.
Professional Goy Critic Maccoby: It is just unbelievable that you can say that Shamir (Israel Shamir) is in "the great Jewish humanist tradition". Shamir is a Christian fundamentalist who is really not very different from Christian Zionists, except that, whereas the Christian Zionists think Islam is the Anti-Christ, he thinks the Anti-Christ is Israel and world Jewry.
Hebrew speaking Palestinian Atzmon: This is indeed true, yet the man is aiming to present a humanist argument and it is within his very argument where Jewishness stands for evil. Whether we agree with Shamir or not, is another question. I think that from time to time Shamir isn't careful enough in defining his terminology. Once he stops talking about the Jews (as an ethnic origin) and starts to talk solely about Jewishness (as an identity), his arguments will be very difficult to attack. The reason no one yet has managed to deconstruct my arguments is because I am very careful with my terminology. By the way, this isn't to say that my argument has a kernel of truth, they are just relatively solid.
Professional Goy Critic Maccoby: See his essay "The Second Coming". He (Shamir) represents a regressive, medieval Christianity which is the opposite of humanism.
Hebrew speaking Palestinian Atzmon: Sorry Deborah, for me medieval Christianity is where Scholastic philosophy was born. Indeed nothing (too clever) really came out of the Jews (along those centuries) except the racist Maimonides. Let me tell you, Christian scholarship of the middle ages is something I can never get enough of. Scholastics is the aim to ground religion on reason. You better do your homework.
Professional Goy Critic Maccoby: It is interesting too that you yourself show something of this regressive tendency in your enthusiasm for the Islamic fundamentalism of Hamas.
Hebrew speaking Palestinian Atzmon: Your Judeo-centric sense of 'progression' and 'regression' is something I do not want to engage with unless you clearly define what regression and progression stand for. Indeed I love Islam and I love Christianity. Both religions try to repair the non-humanistic message entangled with core Judaism. Surely you know that Judaism predates Christianity and Islam. So if to be honest, Christianity and Islam are both models of progressive and reformist thinking. I suggest that you think about it for a while….
Professional Goy Critic Maccoby: Re your comments about Jesus - I had actually always meant to write to you, ever since I read your piece The Protocols of the Elders of London, to point out that it is not at all a "historical narrative" that the Jews killed Jesus. All the historical evidence shows that it as the Romans and their quisling collaborators - the High Priest and his henchmen - who were responsible for Jesus's death and not the real Jewish religious authoriities, the Pharisees, or the main body of the Jewish people in Judea at that time.
Hebrew speaking Palestinian Atzmon: Ok, now we will challenge your intellectual integrity..... a few days ago you mentioned that you were outraged with the BOD acts against our beloved Mayor. As you know, the BOD presents itself as THE 'representative of British Jews'. Funny enough you claimed that your shtetle mates (the J-pukers) sent many letters in support of the Mayor because they probably believed that they represent another pan of Jewishness. Apparently you Jews like to think collectively. You all represent each other.
Probably something to do with the old Judaic saying 'Kol Bney Israel Arevim Ze Baze' (The entirety of Israel are accountable to each other).
Down to the point, the Big Cohen was the representative of the Jews at the time as much as the BOD represents UK Jews, as much as you and the JPukers (JPUK) represent another aspect of Jewishness. You all represent something unlike my very proud self hater friends who talk merely for themselves. This is what I love about Eisen, Shamir, Blankfort and many others, rather than talking in the name of the Jews they talk in the name of reason and ethics. They talk in the name of their naked self. This is why Paul (Eisen) is so hesitant always. Unlike you, Paul doesn't think that reason is his private Jewish property. Unlike you Paul doesn't take a pride of the achievements of other 'humanist Jews!
Again the question I would like to raise is how come a Jew like yourself is so concerned with the association with Christ killers. Why Italians aren't that concerned with very similar accusations? At the end of the day, it was their Roman ancestors who made the crime. The reason is simple. While Italians developed an ethical thinking, your resemblance to the murderous great priest is shockingly apparent. It is something you try to push under the carpet. You know so well that you are a modern day Christ killer. You (and your 3rd category ilk) insist upon acting as kosher commandants. You are there to decide who is dangerous, who is right and who is wrong. Who is good for the Palestinians, You are there to Crucify the enemies of the Jewish people. In your private list Paul Eisen is a shining yellow star. Shamir is the devil and slowly but surely you learn to recognise that I am the 'most dangerous' of them all. Let me tell you, somehow, you are not as talented as the great Cohen. You are not even as talented as myself. You have to practice a lot before the next lesson.
End
I do tend to believe that the emerging panic performed by Elf and Maccoby having to do with ‘Reactionary Christian anti-Semitism’ may have something to do with the Christmas Holiday season. Living in London surrounded by Christmas decorations and millions of Christmas shoppers must make some tribal secular Jewish activists feel alienated. While the religious Jews have Hanukah, a Jewish alternative holiday of lights, the Tribal secular Jew has no collective bond rather than anxiety. At Christmastime Elf and Maccoby are apparently threatened by Christ the ordinary human being (rather than a Son of God). I can't wait and see what kind of fears they may bring up at Easter.
[1] 1.5.2005 Just Peace UK Yahoo Group
Dear Brian,
Have just looked at the Just Peace UK list and have read the interview with Vanunu that Mary has posted...this is I think very disturbing:
"Judaism is one of the faiths which believes, supports, and encourages racism, and is based on supremacy, creating an apartheid regime."
Suppose he had said this about Islam, just substituting Islam for Judaism - wouldn't we call it Islamophobic, because it left out all the positive and tolerant and moderate aspects of islam? So why can't we call this anti-Semitic? Notice too in the interview how he refuses to condemn the mad imams who launched the fatwa on Rushdie and instead condemns Rushdie....however appallingly Vanunu has been treated by Israel I still think his anti-Semitism should be pointed out and condemned.
Looking at the blog of Simon Jones, the interviewer, he seems to be another Jew who has converted to Christianity and is attacking Judaism not just Israel...just read the article We are All Jews Now....
On the other hand, I suppose Israel has asked for this and I hold Sharon ultimately responsible...nonetheless I think this revival of traditional Christian anti-Judaism ought to be opposed; it is not just Shamir/Eisen/Atzmon but is wider, and sadly Vanunu is involved in it too...
Deborah
Labels: Atzmon
